posted 03-07-2003 08:49 PM            

After reporting them at Psyfalcon's Insnaity Endurance Series, and mentioning them in Spot Race 27, I've been back for another look. I've only looked at the Grand Valley 300 Enduro race.

They are viewed on the straight between turns 7 (left) & 8 (right) (teh hairpin is turn 6, the first tunnel is after turn 9) when you are looking over the Lister signs, out over the lake (I think it's a lake). They appear from behind the rock on the right, they come across to just left of the line of the track, then they make a starboard 180 degree turn and head off again to the right. They appear to be flying a continuous loop. If you are too close to the signs you can't see over the signs, though you can see between them. Try rooftop cam view to see better.

posted 03-07-2003 09:12 PM            

(How can they be flying in a no fly zone?)

posted 03-07-2003 09:29 PM            

1. The S2000 LM would be a fine car to run the GV enduro with.

2. I can't drive a car in the outside car view and stay on the track.

3. I saw P2's UFOs, which really stinks because now I can't call him a drunkard or a loon for seeing them any more. It doesn't mean he isn't a drunkard or a loon, but I am apparently just as much of one so it would be the pot calling the kettle black. They were black specks except when they turned when you could see some white, so P2's "jets making loops" theory may be correct since the white may be the jet exhaust.

4. I tried to see then from the other side of the valley but couldn't. Directly across the valley is a tunnel, and further down by the bridge I couldn't see any sign of them.

posted 03-08-2003 08:35 AM            

Arcade -> Single race -> Grand Valley (easy)

Pick a car; I did it with the first 'C' (Altezza) and the first 'A' (Calsonic)

Dive round to turn 7. Pull in to the verge on the left at the end of the inside kerb, against the Autobacs hoardings, and wait. Roofcam is best. You need to hold the brake to stop the car rolling.

Observations:

There are five UFOs in the squadron.

They are running a UFO race.

They first appear tightly grouped, in my first run it was just before the two minute mark, my second try it was at 1'22 to 1'23. The group remains in sight for about a minute, second time I timed it and the first one disappeared at 2'08 and the last one at 2'11.

Their lap times seem variable. In my first run, they were lapping in around 4 minutes. Second run their lap time was about 3 minutes.

This range encompases about the right time for two laps of GV, so it is possible you could be lapping exactly synced so you see them every second lap, or exactly in antiphase, so you never see them. But stopping and looking is guaranteed to work and the max wait time should be ~4 minutes.

After the UFOs first lap, they start to disperse as they are all going different speeds. By their third lap, they are > 0.5 minutes apart, so one or more is visible nearly half the time.

The view is subject to a foreshortening effect - if you view them from the exit of turn 7, they look a long way away, but once you know what to look for, move down the straight towards turn 8, then they seem much closer and have a definite shape.

Run 1.

squadron appeared ~1'46, remained visible ~1 minute
reappeared 5'46 disappeared 6'46
reappeared 9'46, disappeared 11'48 (starting to disperse)
reappeared 14'13 disappeared 17'55

Run 2.

posted 03-08-2003 09:07 AM            

I'm guessing that each of those planes corresponds with one of the AI cars in the race. As some of the AI cars fall being in the race, their jet counterparts do also. Pits would look funny though if the jets stop, but that time probably isn't visible.

Perhaps there is even 6th jet that mimics your car, but we don't see it moving since we are parked.

To test this theory you could watch the jets and see if they appear one by one as the AI cars reach a certain point on the track. You could also see if the jets move faster in races against S class cars than races against C class cars.

------------------
"Neither fast nor clean."

posted 03-08-2003 11:10 AM            

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Expert = X is the scientific quantity for unkown, spurt is a drip under pressure. Expert is an unkown drip under pressure.:)

My Rally Diary: Mudslingers Paradise

posted 03-08-2003 03:49 PM            

They are the other cars on track. The cars are visible as UFOs from the red & blue barrels between tunnels 1 & 2 until the tight chicane before the last 2 turns.

I tested it by the well known 'ramen noddles manoever'; as player2 I thought it my duty to investigate the 2 player option Kudos also, ramen noodles, for the suggestion.

Well, I can sleep easy. And WasteGate, in particular circumstances (I'm thinking six way i-Link) these could indeed be rikki, LDM, Boat & co., but at GV as described above, not at TC

Well, that's that mystery solved. What next. The Monkey's been done, but thse programmers obviously had time on their hands, so how many other tracks have a mysterious presence awaiting detection???

posted 03-08-2003 04:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nightcrawler1:
Pits would look funny though if the jets stop, but that time probably isn't visible.

---

Try the 2 player thing, Nightcrawler.

Park up one car on the verge at turn 7. (You need to hold onto the brakes as the car'll roll there even if you park touching the armco. Rest something heavy on the brake button.)

Now drive the other car past the red & blue barrels. Stop. Wave to the first car. Back up to the barrels. Stick your nose out again. Wave again and shout peek-a-boo. Etc, etc.

When you think about it, why would they add code to stop the pit stops looking stupid? Isn't the whole idea of seeing the race cars mirrored in the sky a little stupid, dare I say a little ... pointless? Isn't that great??

posted 03-08-2003 10:57 PM            

But between Ramen-Noodles and myself, Clifton Park must be the headquarters for UFO busting. Sort of the anti-Area 51.

posted 03-09-2003 09:20 AM            

Techie details:

The game renders the on-screen view by piecing together: the camera angle, the light sources, the cars in view, the track scenery and a distant generic background. This involves a lot of calculation.

The game always tries to draw any car that is in view. 'In view' means in the direction the camera is looking and not obscured by the track scenery.

The game tries to draw as much track scenery as it needs to, but as there is a lot of scenery, it economises by only drawing the scenery which is within a certain distance of the camera, on the assumption that scenery beyond a certain distance is of little value and is in any case unlikely to be visible, as it will be obscured by nearer scenery. All 'out of range' track scenery is replaced with the generic distant background scenery.

However, in this case, there is no naerby scenery to obscure the view across the 'lake'. The far lake view and the distant hills are 'generic scenery', hence they are behind everything else. But the scenery which is part of the circuit up ahead, eg. the bridge and the hills near it, are 'out of range' so they don't get drawn. Since this scenery isn't drawn, the program infers that the cars are not obscured from view, therefore it draws them in the correct places as they drive round the southern part of the track.

Thus the cars are shown driving round, but the track on which they are driving is invisible.

The reason they appear 'in the sky' is because (a) they are above lake height, obviously, and also (b) the place where you are looking from is on a downhill slope, so that raises the apparent elevation of the view looking ahead.

OK, that's my last pronouncement on the UFOs unless anyone wants to debate what I've said?

posted 03-09-2003 09:39 AM            

So it is sort of a bug in that they programmed the track not to appear if it is too far away, but they didn't program the cars not to appear if they are too far away.

posted 02-18-2004 03:29 AM            

I noticed this same "feature" in GT2 on SSR5. As soon as I come out of the tunnel, (turn 2, I guess,) I can often see other cars zipping through the trees up ahead.

posted 02-18-2004 12:21 PM            

I will have to go back and take a closer look