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 Spot Race LXXVIII-NOT the usual suspects!-and not spot LXXIII which is cancelled!
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| Author | Topic: Spot Race LXXVIII-NOT the usual suspects!-and not spot LXXIII which is cancelled! |
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TUSCAN S 1st Lieutenant Posts: 145 |
posted 08-16-2004 01:41 AM
   
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Official Spot Race rules summary: Race is open to all comers. Event as prescribed by the steward. Entrant must submit his/her time for the prescribed event, before the published closing date and time. If no time is specified, it is 23:59.999 board time on the given date. Steward will publish: - the race event to be run - restrictions on car type (if any) - restrictions on driving style (if any) - restrictions on practice (if any) - contact details for submissions (email or post to thread). - Closing date Steward will adjudicate any dispute. Steward will post the result. Stewardship of the next race will pass to the last placed non-disqualified finisher other than the steward him/herself No hybrid cars unless explicitly stated. (A 'hybrid' is a car not generally available in Gran Turismo, imported from a cheat cartridge.) OK then, here`s the Idea! Like the previous spot I wanted people to drive different cars, from what they would usually select, in order to be competitive. Personally I like the testing of the different cars, comparing lets say 350BHP MR cars to see which is quickest around a given track,as much as the race itself. I think the so called shopping-challenges, racing for instance 100K credit cars, are exciting because of the different aproaches to getting a fast car, but now`s the time for something slightly different: You will get to find your personal favorite among "the other cars." To specify that, the following cars are outlawed: All Race cars+ cars with adjustable downforce From Japan: All NSXs all RX-7/8s all EVOs all Imprezas all Skylines all S-2000s and the 350Z Concept From the US: All Acuras all Corvettes all Vipers From Germany: All RUFs From Italy: The Paganis From the UK: All TVRs As for tuning there is only 2 restrictions To get a tight race ,the car must have a power-to-weight ratio of min. 3.0! To clarify: the p/w ratio you see at the bottom of the specs. menu for your car has to read 3.000 or more. So select a 1500Kg car and you`ll have up to 500BHP to boast, select a 1000kg car,lighten it to 900kg, and you`ll have to do with 300BHP. Get it? 2ND. Tuning restriction is tires:T-5`s to get the car to stick on.. COMPLEX STRING Where to go:Your garage, Run & Settings Warning if you practice, and save, your car will gain power (run-in) so either don`t save or tune your car to, let`s say 3,050 p/w to allow for power-gain Now then:Free practice No "offs" no cone-moving Free use of tcs/asm Submit following: Board nickname Submissions by Sunday 22 Aug. 23.59/Board. Please feel free to discus anything(but my mental health!) ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Santiago22 1st Lieutenant Posts: 1743 |
posted 08-16-2004 02:24 AM
This post looks strangely familiar... ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Dango Officer of the Bridge Posts: 2397 |
posted 08-17-2004 05:33 AM
Tuscan, you posted a new thread because of the roman numeral? It's ok, some of the customs at this board may seem a little curious. You might as well say 'strange things are afoot at the Numbers'.  The challenge however looks good. Not to say I'm going to drive ... but maybe I'll have a go in one of the least likely cars to win this. IP: Logged |
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Barbol Crew Member Posts: 18 |
posted 08-17-2004 05:43 AM
quote: Well.....then....go with the mini IP: Logged |
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Moppie 1st Lieutenant Posts: 1531 |
posted 08-17-2004 05:44 AM
quote:
IP: Logged |
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Santiago22 1st Lieutenant Posts: 1743 |
posted 08-17-2004 08:20 PM
Just took my first track session. I hate Complex String. Whomever is responsible for this atrocity against mankind should be tied to the bumper of the Arcade Ruf RGT and dragged around a full lap of this course as punishment. I've tried two cars for this, both of them FRs of European origin. One is extremely fast in a straight line, but is so much of a handful in the corners that each curve that requires more than a slight turn to get into it requires an equal amount of opposite lock on the exit. This car is only about 10 hp short of the 3.0 P:Wr barrier. The other is much slower in a straight line, but is just about as fast through the corners and is much easier to drive quickly, and this while running completely stock everything with only an oil change. This car is about 18-20 seconds slower on a full lap than the power-oversteering beast above, and has a P:Wr of over 4.0. Lots of room to improve here. But I still hate Complex String. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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76brick 1st Lieutenant Posts: 197 |
posted 08-17-2004 09:28 PM
Well, I've managed to narrow the field down to about a half-dozen possibilities of mixed drivetrains. Time to start thrashing them around the Complex (providing) String. I haven't decided whether I dislike the course enough to try and overpower it (a purely emotional reaction), or actually learn it well enough to finesse it with the appropriate vehicle (the cerebral choice....but how often do we let that clear/cloud our judgement?). I worry that by the time I decide which one will work best for me, I won't have much time left to "work" the course with it.  IP: Logged |
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Santiago22 1st Lieutenant Posts: 1743 |
posted 08-17-2004 10:08 PM
quote: You and me both. IP: Logged |
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TUSCAN S 1st Lieutenant Posts: 145 |
posted 08-18-2004 08:15 AM
Glad to hear that you feel the challenge! Actually I`m even worse off, as I`ve decided to race a car that currently has a power to weight ratio of 2,996, with no parts to take of, plus its a car that can only be won once, and not bought. So I`m on course to run the oil black as pitch to take of a couple of horses  Even so Its one of the sweetest sounding machines in GT3(Quizz, anyone?) ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Santiago22 1st Lieutenant Posts: 1743 |
posted 08-18-2004 07:32 PM
quote: I think you're trying to mislead us and distract us from running laps. That's what I think. Anyway, just ran some laps in yet another car. In an effort to get this discussion rolling, I'm going to be the first to show my hand (well, not the WHOLE hand Gonna take it back to the old school Name: Santiago22 How you guys doing? ------------------ IP: Logged |
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TUSCAN S 1st Lieutenant Posts: 145 |
posted 08-19-2004 12:52 AM
Hmmm... Santi+Old School= Camaro? Actually I`m also 4;36XXX atm... ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Dango Officer of the Bridge Posts: 2397 |
posted 08-19-2004 01:41 AM
quote: That's an idea! After having a quick spin I must seriously question how the heck I ever got golds in the license tests involving the RGT and that darn slalom part of CS. IP: Logged |
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Santiago22 1st Lieutenant Posts: 1743 |
posted 08-19-2004 03:30 AM
Actually, the "old school" in my previous post was in reference to how Spot Race entries used to be delivered back in the dark ages of GTBN OLR - posted directly to the forum thread as well as e-mailed.
quote: Which slalom? There's two. Or if you want to get liberal, there's 4 - the standard one, the "box slalom", the "teardrop" slalom, and the hilly slalom. I had a 4'35.xxx earlier but it wasn't clean - I cut one of the box curves too far inside. Dear Lord, how I hate this track.
[This message has been edited by Santiago22 (edited 08-19-2004).] IP: Logged |
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Dango Officer of the Bridge Posts: 2397 |
posted 08-19-2004 05:14 AM
I was referring to the IA - License (I think), one slalom with ASM on, one off. Fastest so far in a BMW IP: Logged |
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Moppie 1st Lieutenant Posts: 1531 |
posted 08-19-2004 06:19 AM
Bloody hell! I forgot how long this track is. Iv just run a lovely twin turbo Brit around in a staggering 5'06 IP: Logged |
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76brick 1st Lieutenant Posts: 197 |
posted 08-19-2004 06:56 AM
I've narrowed my field to one MR and one FR. Initial tries for both in the 4'39.xxx range, with very sloppy runs through the "hilly" slalom. Both cars have p/w's around 3.0xx. Hope to decide on one by tonight! IP: Logged |
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76brick 1st Lieutenant Posts: 197 |
posted 08-19-2004 11:52 PM
I've made my choice and ran a few more serious laps this evening. Starting to find it awkward going into the first slalom if I don't manage to beat my ghost into it. Also having to watch my p/w ratio as the car breaks in. Had a 4'31'0xx turned, but found I had just dropped below the 3.0 barrier, so I had to disregard and restart  . (Not helping me to like this course any better.)IP: Logged |
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76brick 1st Lieutenant Posts: 197 |
posted 08-21-2004 11:54 PM
One might assume, by the absence of responses, that many participants are either hard at work trying to lower their times, or perhaps taking extended timeouts from the stresses of the aforementioned activity. I, for one, reached my limit after a couple of hours on Friday night and have sent my best result as of those efforts. Absolutely frustrating at times to get consistent quality of effort over this lengthy course. Many times could not even get cleanly past the first couple of corners before restarting. The worst cases were when you would make it cleanly through at least 3/4's of the course, only to lose it towards the end. Thanks for the race, Tuscan S, but I'm happy to be done with it. IP: Logged |
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Dango Officer of the Bridge Posts: 2397 |
posted 08-22-2004 01:57 PM
Though the BMW is potentially faster than the Camaro in my setup I liked the low growl of this pitch black bad boy a little more and to my great surprise it handles reasonably well after a visit a the tuning shop where it lost all the weight it can lose. Time submitted for that one. I never seriously practised at CS, did the license tests there and a lap in the RGT to complete 100% once, but from there neglected it. It takes some serious practice to put in a decent lap, let alone a good one. I tried some others too, just for 2 or 3 laps to see if I liked them. Lotus Elise for example, realized (once again) that it would take insane amounts of practice to get used to this thing and find a decent setup, apart for that it's just not fast enough on the straight; the Subie 22B - naah, didn't like it, Aston Martin Vantage - liked it but decided against it after flying off a bit too often, Jaguar XKR - liked it too and Mustang Cobra SVT, which is equally fun on this track as the Camaro, and probably equally fast. Nice event Tuscan! IP: Logged |
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TUSCAN S 1st Lieutenant Posts: 145 |
posted 08-22-2004 05:00 PM
OK Guys, 7 hours to deadline! submissions so far: Dango, 76brick, Wastegate,(and myself )Pretty close race so far with 2,6 secs from 1st to 4th, on a 10k lap  Had to abandon my Vanquish-just couldn`t get it down to 3,000. Turned out my second choice was faster (and the same car brick and WG chose to run. ANYWAY- don`t sit around reading this-get those fast laps in  ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Santiago22 1st Lieutenant Posts: 1743 |
posted 08-22-2004 09:24 PM
Well I had hoped on Thursday afternoon to post my findings on various cars to this thread hoping to help someone else to the victory, after finding my patience wearing thin with Complex String and not seeing much improvement in my times. That plan went out the window sometime Thursday afternoon, when I returned to my computer only to discover I had no internet. An investigation into the cause found that I was without phone service on my home telephone. I have DSL, and no phone means no internet. *takes about 10 minutes to scream all sorts of nasty things about the quality of the local telephone lines, and the ineptitude of Verizon to repair telephone problems in a timely manner, as well as the extremely frustrating experience of having to go without phone or internet for 4 (!) days, in addition to losing phone service (and internet) for at least 2 whole days in each of the last 3 or 4 years.* Anyway, I'll be sending my time in shortly, once I fire up my PS2 and pull down the sector times from my fastest run. Anyway, here's the complete (I think) list of cars I tried, with a much more brief description of my findings in testing. All cars were tested with full drivetrain upgrades, racing suspension, full brake upgrades, and racing ROM on T5 tires.
Ford SVT Mustang Cobra R - see above BMW 328Ci - plagued by a mysterious suspension/traction problem that caused the car to drift/powerslide on the exit of nearly every corner (though I could only manage to get it to the first slalom), regardless of suspension changes, TCS, or steering/throttle inputs Lotus Elise 190 - Low weight comes at the cost of low HP (about 20mph slower down the front straight than every other car I tested), and while it corners faster than most other cars, quick times on CS require lots of curb riding, which causes the Elise to be 99% uncontrollable. Lotus Esprit V8 SE - I can't remember why I didn't run this car, but it was probably power-oversteer. *shrug* Jaguar XKR - the same one I used for the last spot race, only souped-up and tuned for speed. By far the easiest car for me to drive quickly, and the one that I will be entering with. While every other high-hp car I tried would pretty much snap-oversteer if you gave it too much power off a corner, the Jag's tail would gently slide out, and would easily regain its composure with a good countersteer and conscious throttle modulation. Yielded my fastest lap by more than 3 seconds over the next quickest car, with far less headache and tuning. Possibly due to familiarity with the car from the last race, or the fact that it was clothed in the illustrious and legendary shade of British Racing Green.
Aston Martin Vanquish ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Santiago22 1st Lieutenant Posts: 1743 |
posted 08-22-2004 09:43 PM
Time sent. IP: Logged |
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Moppie 1st Lieutenant Posts: 1531 |
posted 08-23-2004 12:09 AM
I tried the Esprit, the Mustang, the Camaro and the SL600. The ESprit is the by far the easiest to drive, and has the highest cornering speed, but its light weight lets it down. The Mustang and Camaro are pretty close, with I think the Camaro being a little faster, it seems to get better traction out of the corners.
[This message has been edited by Moppie (edited 08-23-2004).] IP: Logged |
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TUSCAN S 1st Lieutenant Posts: 145 |
posted 08-23-2004 05:33 PM
Hi guys, here are the results and more from Complex String First the entries: Dango-Camaro SS 441Hp/1326Kg Santi-Jag XKR 553Hp/1640Kg Brick-Esprit350 399Hp/1209Kg WGate-Esprit350 433Hp/1300Kg Tuscn-Esprit350 433Hp/1300Kg The Race sector by sector: At T2 some Danish guy hed taken the lead; At T3 the lead had changed again ;WG in Crossing the line in convincing style was Wastegate with a total time of 4.26,600 Now then... Sector 2 results: Sector 3 results: Sector 4 results: Final score: Comments: ------------------ [This message has been edited by TUSCAN S (edited 08-23-2004).] IP: Logged |
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TUSCAN S 1st Lieutenant Posts: 145 |
posted 08-23-2004 05:37 PM
quote: Got any pictures,Moppie? ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Santiago22 1st Lieutenant Posts: 1743 |
posted 08-23-2004 06:07 PM
quote: Because at least The Ring makes sense as a race track. CS is always a b*tch to drive. There's too many different types of corners to be able to get a setup that works even decently everywhere. I'm tired of stewarding. Who wants to put one up? ------------------ [This message has been edited by Santiago22 (edited 08-23-2004).] IP: Logged |
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TUSCAN S 1st Lieutenant Posts: 145 |
posted 08-23-2004 06:17 PM
Hey Santiago, I won`t go down in GTBTN history as the fool who turned the most active and helpfull(nudge,nudge)guy around, into a grouch!! I know you have been standing-in a couple of times, and I`m ready to run the next race as well, if 76brick don`t want to do the honors ------------------ [This message has been edited by TUSCAN S (edited 08-23-2004).] IP: Logged |
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GT3mich Officer of the Bridge Posts: 4698 |
posted 08-23-2004 06:33 PM
Post your race TUSCAN S. Please make it fun. CS is not a fun track. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Santiago22 1st Lieutenant Posts: 1743 |
posted 08-23-2004 06:43 PM
quote: Quoted For Truth. IP: Logged |
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WasteGate 1st Lieutenant Posts: 696 |
posted 08-23-2004 07:36 PM
quote: Rubbish, it's a great track - at least from where I'm sitting. Well done everyone who put a lap in, never a quick matter at CS, and a great run from Dango in a car that should have been outclassed. To lose out on a place by 0.003 on a 270 second lap is heartbreaking. IP: Logged |
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eggmann 1st Lieutenant Posts: 1282 |
posted 08-23-2004 08:14 PM
I coulda/woulda had fun here, but I was busy having fun in other parts of the country. IP: Logged |
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Santiago22 1st Lieutenant Posts: 1743 |
posted 08-23-2004 09:53 PM
quote: Any track is a great track when viewed from the top of the podium. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Dango Officer of the Bridge Posts: 2397 |
posted 08-24-2004 02:02 AM
CS for me is not a fun track either, but it does one thing: It shows me how much I could improve because there wasn't one single lap where I didn't realize my mistakes right away. I'd say there were 2 seconds at least left on the track for that Camaro. And while it isn't exactly the likeliest car to win, it does have the speed on the straights, and CS has a lot of those. Worst feature on CS is the first slalom (first 3 direction changes are okay, then they get a little narrower it seems) and the problem of finding the right brake point after the many long straights. All in all a fun event Congrats WasteGate! [This message has been edited by Dango (edited 08-24-2004).] IP: Logged |
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Moppie 1st Lieutenant Posts: 1531 |
posted 08-24-2004 03:05 AM
quote:
Ill post more in a proper thread. Congrats to WG! Im almost glad I didnt put a time in, I never got below 4'50 Now, does anyone want to take the SL600 for a run? Test if my theory in power being all on this track if valid? ------------------ Selection of Photo's I have taken, and a few Iv edited with photoshop. IP: Logged |
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Santiago22 1st Lieutenant Posts: 1743 |
posted 08-24-2004 05:16 AM
quote: The last 3 or 4 direction changes on that chicane *are* in fact harder to negotiate than the early curves. It's not that the track gets narrower though. Imagine a straight line from the start of the slalom to the end. The point that is farthest from this line on the inside of each turn is where the apex is. If you draw perpendicular hash marks from the original line to each apex, you will find that the last 3 or 4 are farther from your "center line." Because they are farther off the straight line, the car needs more steering input to be able to hit the next apex. I usually take the first 4 or 5 changes at pretty much the same speed, then when the slalom gets more curvy, I lift enough to drop about 5 to 8 mph and take the next curve, then just before I get to the last right, I floor the gas and steer with the wheel. After the final right, the slight left jog before the short chute isn't anything to worry about. If you get the final right correctly, you can just stand on the gas and steer through it before you set up for the hairpin left. I thought everybody knew by now that the slalom didn't keep the same radius throughout its duration. *scratches head in amazement* Figured it was common knowledge. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Dango Officer of the Bridge Posts: 2397 |
posted 08-24-2004 06:48 AM
quote: Dude, it probably is. That doesn't make it any easier though. IP: Logged |
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76brick 1st Lieutenant Posts: 197 |
posted 08-24-2004 06:58 AM
Congratulations on another top showing by WG. A great time on a difficult course. Excellent runs by Tuscan S and Dango, with so little to choose between their own podium finishes. Santi and I may have not made the top three, but all finishers deserve accolades for just attempting this demanding run. As for Spot ideas, I have nothing to offer at the moment, so feel free to pull a "double" if you have anything Tuscan S. IP: Logged |
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